As if we needed reminding how lucky multicultural Australia is (Canberra’s hosting 170 different cultures this weekend at the Multicultural Festival), just take a look at Denman Prospect, where a Christian and a Buddhist walk into a bar.

It sounds like the beginning of a joke but it’s actually the meeting of two unlikely friends from different faiths – Christian Jacob Traeger and Zen Buddhist Jamal Blakkarly – for some ‘spiritual drinks’.

There’s no actual top-shelf spirits (just beer) but there is a punch-line because after they delve into theology, they always finish with a joke. 

“A Christian and a Buddhist walk into a bar serving bagels. The Christian asks for a holy bagel, like one that Jesus ate, but the Buddhist says, ‘Oh no, just make me one with everything.'”

Boom tish.

In our increasingly secular society (in the 2021 Census, 38.9 % of Australians had ‘no religion’), Jacob and Jamal are ignoring societal taboos of discussing religion at the dinner table and they’re discussing nothing but religion at the Denman Kitchen.

There’s no preaching allowed (and atheists are most welcome) and openness is key because Jacob, 35, is studying to become a pastor and all of this began as part of his training.

A mutual friend put Jacob and Jamal in touch and what started out as a conversation turned into a monthly pub session and now a podcast.

“We just started talking in a pub and it was the tone that we really liked,” Jamal said. “This idea that you can have these very important, deep philosophical, theological conversations but you can do it in a casual and respectful way that’s not about debating or shouting at each other or trying to prove a point. It’s actually just about shared interest in learning.”

Alcohol is optional and so is the subject matter, which meanders around spirituality but often goes off on tangents. The main rule of spiritual drinks: respect.

“What we really try and push is this idea of respectful disagreement,” Jamal said. “At the end of the day, me and Jacob disagree on a whole lot of things. I’m a relativist, he’s a universalist. There’s all these differences we have but we manage to talk.”

Jacob is in the midst of a Master of Theology at Australian Lutheran College, having already completed an MA in Theological Studies at St Mark’s National Theological Centre in Barton.

As part of his seminary studies, Jacob was given an assignment to converse with people from completely different backgrounds, worldview and religious beliefs.

“We’re just listening and understanding people who have different perspectives on faith and life,” Jacob said. “You have to actually try and come onto the other person’s ground and understand what they’re saying and thinking on its own terms.”

The other rule of spiritual drinks: no conversions.

“We’re not trying to say who’s right and who’s wrong,” Jamal said. “There are particular points where we keep coming back to the same ideas and we’ve got a real disagreement but we’re able to do that respectfully. There’s also a bunch of places where we go, ah, we’re seeing the same phenomenon but talking about it in different terms and different language.”

Jacob, who’s a candidate for ordination with the Lutheran Church, said he liked the broad perspectives that pop up at spiritual drinks.

“Hearing questions from Jamal forces me to interrogate some of the things that I think or I believe more deeply,” he said.

There’s never been a heated disagreement in the two-and-a-half years of spiritual drinks but there have been a lot of laughs.

“They say that when your mouth is open because you’re laughing the Dharma can come in,” Jamal said.

Jacob chimes in with, “That’s different from when your eyes are closed because you’re sneezing, Satan gets in. That’s where ‘bless you’ comes from.”

A Christian and a Buddhist walk into a Bar podcast is on christianbuddhistbar.podbean.com

Monthly Spiritual Drinks is on Facebook.